the NachtKabarett

I was not allowed to put the paintings on the cover of the record! Our anticipation was not to create album artwork. We wanted to create a collaboration, and from that came the idea to use it for the cover, because we did not consider the Golden Age of Grotesque to be limited to an album. An album is very limited with censorship, and with time constraints and space constraints. We did intend for the white and black images of me with the ears to be the front and back.

I feel the black one is very American, and the white one is very European. The black one is somewhat more evil, and the white one is kind of innocent. I actually think that the white one, visually, strikes me as more evil. It's like a Pierrot. You know, American versus European. The entire time that I did it, I don't think anyone mentioned the blackface and the relevance of it. The relevance of it is the exploitation of a performer, or an artist. The Mickey Mouse was invocative because of the hat, and a lot of people feared that it would be a lawsuit from Disney, but it does not even, in it's fullest frame, show both ears. The hat that I ended up making is very similar, but it's asymmetrical, because I have a real problem with symmetry. I like things to be different on both sides, like my brain. The white one, on the other side, is like the child.

All I can say about it is I'm glad that it makes it into the collection of images that represent me as best as it could. I think that it just scratches the surface of what Gottfried and I could do together. Also I think it was most appreciated and understood for it's biggest quality and it's biggest political impact.

Like I said, people can take it anyway they want. People took it as serious as it could be in Europe, particularly in France and Paris, and in Japan because they saw my commentary on America. They saw me as much as people see Mickey Mouse as an American symbol. You cover your mouth with blackface, which really represents a franchise, moneymaking, and slave creation of entertainment, that isn't even human. That's an animal, on top of a podium that is exaggerated - a comedy form of fascism. It sounds very American to me. It sounds like a Happy Meal. That's not to say that's the only way you need to look at it.

"It's where theater goes off of the stage and becomes a reality of its own. It's the Nuremberg rally meets Walt Disney on acid. And stripped of religious and political meaning, it becomes its own religion and politics."

HnH: One of your most famous paintings is a rather scary portrait of Mickey Mouse. Why did you decide to reuse the idea by photographying Manson in a similar way for the album's cover (which has been censored since then)?

GOTTFRIED HELNWEIN: I have often manipulated the image of Mickey Mouse and Donald Duck because I have always appreciated this trivial culture. Comic books are part of my roots and I consider them as full works of art. As an icon, Mickey possesses different aspects. It's a wonderful creation that became something appalling. A big commercial thing, and a symbol of multinationals. And Mickey has a cute side, eventually very artificial when you see how it was used for Manson (laughs)! And then, as Mickey is also a character that's known in the whole world, it's tempting to play with it.

Helnwein, Manson, & Mickey Mouse...

Helnwein: "He's an icon that everyone on the planet would know. He's become a corporate identity. You look at Manson as Mickey Mouse, and it's the American dream turned into a nightmare." The Mickey portraits are only a small part of a larger collection of unnerving images that Manson will incorporate into his worldwide "Grotesk Burlesk" stage show. "The corporations, the media, they tell us to be shocked by images like these," Helnwein says. "Well, it's the world that's shocking to people like myself and Manson. There's no freedom. There's censorship. You're constantly being told how you should behave. What Manson and I have in common is the fact that we don't accept this. These images represent us fighting back."

I constructed something that I think represents a satire of totalitarianism and control and restriction of art and conformity, and that deteriorates into degenerate grotesque burlesque. And into finally the ultimate childish deterioration. And that's why I used symbolism like Disneyland. Starting off with something like Nuremberg and ending with something like Disneyland takes you on a journey that represents everything that I have to say on this record. And somehow those two can be as scary as one another if you flip it around. Because American culture can be controlled by its own sense of self-imposed fascism: desire to fit in. That's a form of slavery of itself.